Grixis Control

I ran this deck last night using a list similar to yours, Mike, except for i am still playing singleton planeswalkers (Jace, Liliana, Sorin, Bolas). Its much better to play this way than to go the blightning route since blightning is a commitment you don't really want to make on your turn without a gauranteed loss of all cards. The one time it pays off is vs opposing planeswalkers, but Earthquake does that much better generally. I'm not convinced that Magosi isn't a viable sideboard card, but it definately isn't a main deck card, so Halimar Depths over that for sure, but Magosi is a great anti-control card, so i would run it in mirrors. I'm pretty convinced that the list you give is the right main-deck, though i do enjoy the ability to play consecutive planeswalkers without having to sit on brainstorming 2 jaces back to the top of my library. Jace has such staying power by himself, that i think playing four main would be a little much. Playing the fourth jace in the board might be the right call here.

have you guys thought of chain reaction? it most likely will kill the turtle but its nearly a warth in red...

chops wrote:

have you guys thought of chain reaction? it most likely will kill the turtle but its nearly a warth in red...

it is a card i've flirted with, yeah. i think it definitely is a warranted suggestion and one worth testing out.

chops wrote:

have you guys thought of chain reaction? it most likely will kill the turtle but its nearly a warth in red...

I've thought about it. I just don't like not having control over how much it goes off for and killing my Turtles. Also, the player damage on Earthquake is relevant sometimes. I haven't used it a whole lot, but that's my take on it.

Made a few sideboard changes and tested some against Vamps last night. Sideboard changes were as follows:

-2 Permafrost Trap
-1 Deathmark

+3 Magma Spray

Game 1 is still pretty tough. I'd say 65-35 (maybe a bit more) in favor of Vamps. The only chance you have is to hit enough Smothers/Lightning Bolts to hold off the early game and hope they don't hit more than one Bloodghast or Gatekeeper. After board, if you hit the Sprays, the matchup probably becomes more like 55-45 in Vamps favor. Them not recurring Bloodghasts is the key. It's still tough, but much more winnable if you know what you're doing with the deck and don't keep bad hands.

Be_Nike wrote:

Made a few sideboard changes and tested some against Vamps last night. Sideboard changes were as follows:

-2 Permafrost Trap
-1 Deathmark

+3 Magma Spray

Game 1 is still pretty tough. I'd say 65-35 (maybe a bit more) in favor of Vamps. The only chance you have is to hit enough Smothers/Lightning Bolts to hold off the early game and hope they don't hit more than one Bloodghast or Gatekeeper. After board, if you hit the Sprays, the matchup probably becomes more like 55-45 in Vamps favor. Them not recurring Bloodghasts is the key. It's still tough, but much more winnable if you know what you're doing with the deck and don't keep bad hands.

i might be going up to gameday this weekend. i'm glad we've gotten some good information on this deck.
i think i'm going to run a grixis list. i called my cruel ultimatums last night. asked them if they'd take me back just one more time. we're getting together for coffee later today. *fingers crossed they say yes.

While I still stand by the belief that Grixis is a good deck in the hands of a capable pilot, I've been playing the U/W list lately...

What can I say? Tectonic Edge and Everflowing Chalice are sick.

Be_Nike wrote:

While I still stand by the belief that Grixis is a good deck in the hands of a capable pilot, I've been playing the U/W list lately...

What can I say? Tectonic Edge and Everflowing Chalice are sick.

yeah, i was a little disappointed that deck didn't place better anywhere recently.

Apparently Grixis was one of the top 3 decks LSV was testing before he chose Boss Naya at the Pro Tour, but he decided that the deck wasn't good enough and couldn't beat Jund at a consistent rate.

Be_Nike wrote:

Apparently Grixis was one of the top 3 decks LSV was testing before he chose Boss Naya at the Pro Tour, but he decided that the deck wasn't good enough and couldn't beat Jund at a consistent rate.

which is really strange, given your own reports regarding jund matchups. i don't understand why it isn't good.
i feel like vamps is the only thing keeping grixis from going well, as it is a pretty difficult matchup. i played against a budget version of vamps (think as budget as you can get) on monday and still got rolled game one. i won the second two but only because i wasn't staring down bloodghasts and nocturni every turn.

workshoptelescope wrote:

which is really strange, given your own reports regarding jund matchups. i don't understand why it isn't good.
i feel like vamps is the only thing keeping grixis from going well, as it is a pretty difficult matchup. i played against a budget version of vamps (think as budget as you can get) on monday and still got rolled game one. i won the second two but only because i wasn't staring down bloodghasts and nocturni every turn.

It could have something to do with the quality of players. However, I think the real reason is that, back when Worldwake first came out, most Jund decks weren't playing 4-6 manlands like they are now, which can be a large problem for Grixis if you don't draw enough Smothers/Terminates. Also, most Jund decks have converted over to the Rampant Growth with Siege-Gang Commander strategy and Siege-Gang can be a beast if it sticks. I still feel that the matchup is at least in our favor a little bit with the right combination of Smother, Terminate, and Double Negative with Flashfreezes out of the board. Hopefully, since Vamps did not fare very well at the PT, there numbers will dwindle as well and Grixis can get a little better. I'm still worried about Tectonic Edges in U/W Control and Boss Naya though.

Be_Nike wrote:

workshoptelescope wrote:

which is really strange, given your own reports regarding jund matchups. i don't understand why it isn't good.
i feel like vamps is the only thing keeping grixis from going well, as it is a pretty difficult matchup. i played against a budget version of vamps (think as budget as you can get) on monday and still got rolled game one. i won the second two but only because i wasn't staring down bloodghasts and nocturni every turn.

It could have something to do with the quality of players. However, I think the real reason is that, back when Worldwake first came out, most Jund decks weren't playing 4-6 manlands like they are now, which can be a large problem for Grixis if you don't draw enough Smothers/Terminates. Also, most Jund decks have converted over to the Rampant Growth with Siege-Gang Commander strategy and Siege-Gang can be a beast if it sticks. I still feel that the matchup is at least in our favor a little bit with the right combination of Smother, Terminate, and Double Negative with Flashfreezes out of the board. Hopefully, since Vamps did not fare very well at the PT, there numbers will dwindle as well and Grixis can get a little better. I'm still worried about Tectonic Edges in U/W Control and Boss Naya though.

yeah, the tectonic edge is really what worries me, too. i've finally gotten the bazaar trader/coil thing over with (hilariously fun, by the way. a great casual play, seriously.) and i'm starting to take a good, hard look at some kind of midrange/control build that deals well with the current aggro/midrange format. there are just too many powerful cards to decide well which colors are worth playing. i think i really like tectonic edge enough to think its playable. i don't know if u/w is where its at or not, given i haven't played the deck yet (seriously, how the hell does one actually acquire a playset of jace mind sculptors?) but i like the look of the list. i've still thought about running esper colored solar flare, given how difficult a turn 5 iona is to deal with, but i still haven't gotten to test it against jund or much of anything, really. i don't know... standard is weird right now.

p.s. two weeks ago, 6-2 with thopther/depths at ptq madison. uh, pretty good deck. not sure how good it is now that it is also the most hated deck around but yeah, thought you'd get a little affirmation given our protracted debates about the decks merits.

workshoptelescope wrote:

yeah, the tectonic edge is really what worries me, too. i've finally gotten the bazaar trader/coil thing over with (hilariously fun, by the way. a great casual play, seriously.) and i'm starting to take a good, hard look at some kind of midrange/control build that deals well with the current aggro/midrange format. there are just too many powerful cards to decide well which colors are worth playing. i think i really like tectonic edge enough to think its playable. i don't know if u/w is where its at or not, given i haven't played the deck yet (seriously, how the hell does one actually acquire a playset of jace mind sculptors?) but i like the look of the list. i've still thought about running esper colored solar flare, given how difficult a turn 5 iona is to deal with, but i still haven't gotten to test it against jund or much of anything, really. i don't know... standard is weird right now.

p.s. two weeks ago, 6-2 with thopther/depths at ptq madison. uh, pretty good deck. not sure how good it is now that it is also the most hated deck around but yeah, thought you'd get a little affirmation given our protracted debates about the decks merits.

I have a playset of Jace, the Mind Awesome. I got them back when they were selling for $20 on one of the first presales on SCG Looking for a control/midrange deck you say? You could play...Jund I've heard it's quite good. Also, God I miss Solar Flare. That deck was just so much fun to play.

Good to see Thopter/Depths worked out for you! Although I have been playing mostly Legacy lately, I have been playing some extended with Dredge (as everyone seems to have taken all of their sideboard hate out and I like guaranteeing game 1 wins).