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| no titans? your deck probably sucks, pt.1 | |
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workshoptelescope
Posts : 664 Join date : 2009-11-23 Location : Rochester, MN
| Subject: no titans? your deck probably sucks, pt.1 Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:54 am | |
| so, m11's titans are apparently good. even the bad ones are better than my cards because none of my cards are titans. with nationals coming up, and i am assuming from the poll that at least 4 of you are going to grind, the standard metagame is in need of analysis (and, ideally, being broken). now, grinders are apparently different than most tournament experiences, as you're really not necessarily beholden to the metagame at large to decide what to play. you can go rogue. dan will go rogue. madsen will probably go rogue. but here's the thing: the whole world might go rogue. which means the metagame matters. why does the metagame matter? because "going rogue" as a method of strategic deck selection is beholden to the metagame. what is considered "rogue" exists only in relation to what is normative. so, then, just what in the hell is the new, post-m11 normal? well, the dust certainly hasn't settled yet but the hivemind is working it out. jason posted this quick rundown (thanks jason) over here https://rmtg.forumotion.com/standard-f11/top-decks-in-july-t409.htm#2191now, because this list is missing stuff (nothing personal, jason), i want to take a closer look at what decks are working consistently enough to be considered "lasting" decks in the metagame. since the release of m11, there have been a number of nationals tournaments and ptqs. here's a compiled list of deck lists: https://rmtg.forumotion.com/standard-f11/aggregating-standard-t411.htm#2193so, what's working? well, as i said at the beginning, titans are. before m11, turboland was the only ramp deck on the block and it was putting up serious numbers. however, in the wake of primeval titan, turboland has mutated or been outright replaced. titan force, titan ramp, and turbo titan have all kind of taken the place that turboland occupied. the three aforementioned decks are largely the same strategy with a few modifications. they all use primeval titan and mana ramp to enable either destructive force lock down, excessive valakut triggers (i'm glaring at you, clint), or updating the turboland shell. sample lists: Titan Force | Titan Ramp | Turbo Titan | Maindeck:
Creatures 2 Frost Titan 2 Primeval Titan
Instants 2 Into the Roil 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Mana Leak
Planeswalkers 3 Garruk Wildspeaker 4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sorceries 3 Cultivate 3 Destructive Force 3 Explore 2 Mind Spring 3 Rampant Growth
Basic Lands 4 Forest 4 Island 3 Mountain
Lands 2 Halimar Depths 2 Khalni Garden 4 Misty Rainforest 4 Raging Ravine 2 Scalding Tarn
Sideboard: 1 Mold Shambler 3 Obstinate Baloth 2 Pelakka Wurm 2 Mind Control 4 Negate 1 Destructive Force 2 Earthquake | Maindeck:
Creatures 3 Avenger of Zendikar 4 Primeval Titan 4 Siege-Gang Commander
Enchantments 4 Khalni Heart Expedition
Instants 1 Comet Storm 4 Harrow
Sorceries 4 Cultivate 4 Explore 4 Rampant Growth
Basic Lands 6 Forest 12 Mountain
Lands 3 Evolving Wilds 3 Terramorphic Expanse 4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Sideboard: 1 Elixir of Immortality 2 Acidic Slime 4 Obstinate Baloth 1 Pelakka Wurm 2 Back to Nature 1 Earthquake 4 Forked Bolt | Maindeck:
Creatures 1 Avenger of Zendikar 4 Lotus Cobra 4 Oracle of Mul Daya 4 Primeval Titan
Legendary Creatures 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth 1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Planeswalkers 3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sorceries 3 Cultivate 3 Explore 4 Rampant Growth 3 Time Warp
Basic Lands 7 Forest 5 Island
Lands 4 Eldrazi Temple 4 Halimar Depths 4 Misty Rainforest 1 Mystifying Maze 1 Scalding Tarn 1 Verdant Catacombs
Legendary Lands 1 Eye of Ugin
Sideboard: 4 Obstinate Baloth 2 Pelakka Wurm 3 Roil Elemental 2 Negate 4 Summoning Trap |
now, i don't know a damned thing about playing these decks. they seem pretty self-evident. however, what is optimal... i have no idea. i've talked to clint about titan ramp a bit and i've learned that you really do have to pick one or the other with approaches. you are either a destructive force deck or a valakut ramp deck. i harbor ill will toward "turboland", so my opinion of turbo titan list is essentially bile and spite, even if it works. i think that the inclusion of blue in the titan force list is probably better than leaving it out. now, what are you supposed to do to beat such a deck? it appears to really depend on the build. turbo titan doesn't do all that well with manabarbs. none of them like counterspells. however, all of these lists are really flexible in that they all have multiple angles of attack and primeval titan isn't their only way of winning. however, a resolved titan often wins the game outright. so, ideas on combating or killing this? in part 2, the return of it being cool to play blue... | |
| | | Knepps
Posts : 263 Join date : 2010-04-10
| Subject: Re: no titans? your deck probably sucks, pt.1 Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:43 pm | |
| The Destructive force one hurts because it has mana leak backup, while valakut is just uncounterable. The mana denial in standard isn't ideal really, Tectonic Edge? Demolish? Goblin Ruinblaster?
What about spread em? making valakuts islands or just destroying them seems to be good? But they have so much ramp that land denial seems like no good. | |
| | | Blacrowe
Posts : 275 Join date : 2010-01-09 Location : Rochester
| Subject: Re: no titans? your deck probably sucks, pt.1 Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:27 pm | |
| turbo titan is the strongest here, and Jund spot removal (term for titan, pulse for Jace) coupled with tectonic edge may have to suffice (ugh) until the scars shennanigans on 10/1. And I will not spend the money to mirror. WILL. NOT! | |
| | | Blacrowe
Posts : 275 Join date : 2010-01-09 Location : Rochester
| Subject: Re: no titans? your deck probably sucks, pt.1 Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:01 pm | |
| ...as to a Jace 2.0-free mono blue you may be alluding to, the viability of...?:
4x Preordain 4x Mana Leak 4x Sphinx of JI 4x Conundrum Sphinx 4x Sea Gate Oracle 4x Coralhelm Commander 4x Halimar Depths 4x Aether Adept 4x Spreading Seas 2x Negate 2x Cancel 16x Island 4x Tectonic Edge
BOARD: Jace B, Scroll Thief, Soaring Seacliff, Flashfreeze, Sword of Vengeance, Basilisk Collar, Kraken's Eye...no idea | |
| | | JakeFaas Admin
Posts : 944 Join date : 2009-10-24 Age : 40 Location : Rochester, MN
| Subject: Re: no titans? your deck probably sucks, pt.1 Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:32 pm | |
| Jason: I think something like skill borrower actually makes conundrum sphinx much better. I'd almost rather play it over oracle | |
| | | Blacrowe
Posts : 275 Join date : 2010-01-09 Location : Rochester
| Subject: Re: no titans? your deck probably sucks, pt.1 Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:42 pm | |
| SB's a great choice, and I had the sinking feeling this needed more "interactivity" that she lends-- this is nice flavor, at least until it phases. Though it's a legit reprint chance if Scars goes esper | |
| | | Blacrowe
Posts : 275 Join date : 2010-01-09 Location : Rochester
| Subject: Re: no titans? your deck probably sucks, pt.1 Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:34 am | |
| Not so fast. Italy Nationals: No titan in top 5--
[1]
Mythic Conscription 1st place Federico Ronchi Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy Naya Shaman 2nd place Daniel Spanò Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy Jund 3rd place Guido Roccoli Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy Polymorph 4th place Enrico Torazza Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy U/W Control 5th place Paolo Testa Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy Titan Ramp 6th place Andrea Giarola Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy Titan Ramp 7th place Angelo Asta Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy Titan Ramp 8th place Stefano Biasio Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
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| | | workshoptelescope
Posts : 664 Join date : 2009-11-23 Location : Rochester, MN
| Subject: Re: no titans? your deck probably sucks, pt.1 Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:55 am | |
| - Jason wrote:
- Not so fast. Italy Nationals: No titan in top 5--
[1]
Mythic Conscription 1st place Federico Ronchi Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy Naya Shaman 2nd place Daniel Spanò Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy Jund 3rd place Guido Roccoli Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy Polymorph 4th place Enrico Torazza Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy U/W Control 5th place Paolo Testa Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy Titan Ramp 6th place Andrea Giarola Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy Titan Ramp 7th place Angelo Asta Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy Titan Ramp 8th place Stefano Biasio Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
lol... but out of a tournament of how many people, three in top 8?!?! that, when combined with the rest of the nationals and ptqs, is an unruly number of top 8 finishes (here lumping all titan decks under the same umbrella). | |
| | | Blacrowe
Posts : 275 Join date : 2010-01-09 Location : Rochester
| Subject: Re: no titans? your deck probably sucks, pt.1 Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:06 pm | |
| yes, yes--as you saw I lumped all PTitan decks together in the 'July' post. I mean, what other card makes Jace2 look like a secondary theme?! LMFAO | |
| | | JakeFaas Admin
Posts : 944 Join date : 2009-10-24 Age : 40 Location : Rochester, MN
| Subject: Re: no titans? your deck probably sucks, pt.1 Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:30 am | |
| - Jason wrote:
- yes, yes--as you saw I lumped all PTitan decks together in the 'July' post. I mean, what other card makes Jace2 look like a secondary theme?! LMFAO
Wow, can't argue with that logic! that makes a lot of sense! | |
| | | magic jesus
Posts : 277 Join date : 2010-08-22 Age : 43
| Subject: Re: no titans? your deck probably sucks, pt.1 Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:18 pm | |
| A few things im taking away from my time at nationals, and having chatted with some guys who get paid rediculous money to get drunk in bars and play magic during the day. Standard is going to be dominated by combo-ish decks especialy once shards block rolls out, we currently have ascension, runeflare trap, and this new dregevine is pretty combo-y. Also, Green titan = good, black titan = mediocre, red titan = really good (ask dan about Chapins bomb play), blue titan = insane, white titan = sucks. | |
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