no titans? your deck probably sucks, pt.1

so, m11's titans are apparently good. even the bad ones are better than my cards because none of my cards are titans. with nationals coming up, and i am assuming from the poll that at least 4 of you are going to grind, the standard metagame is in need of analysis (and, ideally, being broken). now, grinders are apparently different than most tournament experiences, as you're really not necessarily beholden to the metagame at large to decide what to play. you can go rogue. dan will go rogue. madsen will probably go rogue. but here's the thing: the whole world might go rogue. which means the metagame matters. why does the metagame matter? because "going rogue" as a method of strategic deck selection is beholden to the metagame. what is considered "rogue" exists only in relation to what is normative. so, then, just what in the hell is the new, post-m11 normal? well, the dust certainly hasn't settled yet but the hivemind is working it out. jason posted this quick rundown (thanks jason) over here https://rmtg.forumotion.com/standard-f11/top-decks-in-july-t409.htm#2191

now, because this list is missing stuff (nothing personal, jason), i want to take a closer look at what decks are working consistently enough to be considered "lasting" decks in the metagame. since the release of m11, there have been a number of nationals tournaments and ptqs. here's a compiled list of deck lists: https://rmtg.forumotion.com/standard-f11/aggregating-standard-t411.htm#2193

so, what's working? well, as i said at the beginning, titans are. before m11, turboland was the only ramp deck on the block and it was putting up serious numbers. however, in the wake of primeval titan, turboland has mutated or been outright replaced. titan force, titan ramp, and turbo titan have all kind of taken the place that turboland occupied. the three aforementioned decks are largely the same strategy with a few modifications. they all use primeval titan and mana ramp to enable either destructive force lock down, excessive valakut triggers (i'm glaring at you, clint), or updating the turboland shell. sample lists:

Titan Force	Titan Ramp	Turbo Titan
Maindeck: Creatures 2 Frost Titan 2 Primeval Titan Instants 2 Into the Roil 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Mana Leak Planeswalkers 3 Garruk Wildspeaker 4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor Sorceries 3 Cultivate 3 Destructive Force 3 Explore 2 Mind Spring 3 Rampant Growth Basic Lands 4 Forest 4 Island 3 Mountain Lands 2 Halimar Depths 2 Khalni Garden 4 Misty Rainforest 4 Raging Ravine 2 Scalding Tarn Sideboard: 1 Mold Shambler 3 Obstinate Baloth 2 Pelakka Wurm 2 Mind Control 4 Negate 1 Destructive Force 2 Earthquake	Maindeck: Creatures 3 Avenger of Zendikar 4 Primeval Titan 4 Siege-Gang Commander Enchantments 4 Khalni Heart Expedition Instants 1 Comet Storm 4 Harrow Sorceries 4 Cultivate 4 Explore 4 Rampant Growth Basic Lands 6 Forest 12 Mountain Lands 3 Evolving Wilds 3 Terramorphic Expanse 4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle Sideboard: 1 Elixir of Immortality 2 Acidic Slime 4 Obstinate Baloth 1 Pelakka Wurm 2 Back to Nature 1 Earthquake 4 Forked Bolt	Maindeck: Creatures 1 Avenger of Zendikar 4 Lotus Cobra 4 Oracle of Mul Daya 4 Primeval Titan Legendary Creatures 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth 1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre Planeswalkers 3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor Sorceries 3 Cultivate 3 Explore 4 Rampant Growth 3 Time Warp Basic Lands 7 Forest 5 Island Lands 4 Eldrazi Temple 4 Halimar Depths 4 Misty Rainforest 1 Mystifying Maze 1 Scalding Tarn 1 Verdant Catacombs Legendary Lands 1 Eye of Ugin Sideboard: 4 Obstinate Baloth 2 Pelakka Wurm 3 Roil Elemental 2 Negate 4 Summoning Trap

now, i don't know a damned thing about playing these decks. they seem pretty self-evident. however, what is optimal... i have no idea. i've talked to clint about titan ramp a bit and i've learned that you really do have to pick one or the other with approaches. you are either a destructive force deck or a valakut ramp deck. i harbor ill will toward "turboland", so my opinion of turbo titan list is essentially bile and spite, even if it works. i think that the inclusion of blue in the titan force list is probably better than leaving it out.

now, what are you supposed to do to beat such a deck? it appears to really depend on the build. turbo titan doesn't do all that well with manabarbs. none of them like counterspells. however, all of these lists are really flexible in that they all have multiple angles of attack and primeval titan isn't their only way of winning. however, a resolved titan often wins the game outright. so, ideas on combating or killing this?

in part 2, the return of it being cool to play blue...

The Destructive force one hurts because it has mana leak backup, while valakut is just uncounterable. The mana denial in standard isn't ideal really, Tectonic Edge? Demolish? Goblin Ruinblaster?

What about spread em? making valakuts islands or just destroying them seems to be good? But they have so much ramp that land denial seems like no good.

turbo titan is the strongest here, and Jund spot removal (term for titan, pulse for Jace) coupled with tectonic edge may have to suffice (ugh) until the scars shennanigans on 10/1. And I will not spend the money to mirror. WILL. NOT!

...as to a Jace 2.0-free mono blue you may be alluding to, the viability of...?:

4x Preordain
4x Mana Leak
4x Sphinx of JI
4x Conundrum Sphinx
4x Sea Gate Oracle
4x Coralhelm Commander
4x Halimar Depths
4x Aether Adept
4x Spreading Seas
2x Negate
2x Cancel
16x Island
4x Tectonic Edge

BOARD: Jace B, Scroll Thief, Soaring Seacliff, Flashfreeze, Sword of Vengeance, Basilisk Collar, Kraken's Eye...no idea

Jason: I think something like skill borrower actually makes conundrum sphinx much better. I'd almost rather play it over oracle

SB's a great choice, and I had the sinking feeling this needed more "interactivity" that she lends-- this is nice flavor, at least until it phases. Though it's a legit reprint chance if Scars goes esper

Not so fast. Italy Nationals: No titan in top 5--

[1]


Mythic Conscription 1st place Federico Ronchi Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
Naya Shaman 2nd place Daniel Spanò Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
Jund 3rd place Guido Roccoli Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
Polymorph 4th place Enrico Torazza Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
U/W Control 5th place Paolo Testa Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
Titan Ramp 6th place Andrea Giarola Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
Titan Ramp 7th place Angelo Asta Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
Titan Ramp 8th place Stefano Biasio Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy

Jason wrote:

Not so fast. Italy Nationals: No titan in top 5--

[1]


Mythic Conscription 1st place Federico Ronchi Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
Naya Shaman 2nd place Daniel Spanò Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
Jund 3rd place Guido Roccoli Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
Polymorph 4th place Enrico Torazza Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
U/W Control 5th place Paolo Testa Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
Titan Ramp 6th place Andrea Giarola Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
Titan Ramp 7th place Angelo Asta Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy
Titan Ramp 8th place Stefano Biasio Nationals 2010-08-01 Rimini, Italy

lol... but out of a tournament of how many people, three in top 8?!?!

that, when combined with the rest of the nationals and ptqs, is an unruly number of top 8 finishes (here lumping all titan decks under the same umbrella).

yes, yes--as you saw I lumped all PTitan decks together in the 'July' post. I mean, what other card makes Jace2 look like a secondary theme?! LMFAO

Jason wrote:

yes, yes--as you saw I lumped all PTitan decks together in the 'July' post. I mean, what other card makes Jace2 look like a secondary theme?! LMFAO

Wow, can't argue with that logic! that makes a lot of sense!

A few things im taking away from my time at nationals, and having chatted with some guys who get paid rediculous money to get drunk in bars and play magic during the day. Standard is going to be dominated by combo-ish decks especialy once shards block rolls out, we currently have ascension, runeflare trap, and this new dregevine is pretty combo-y. Also, Green titan = good, black titan = mediocre, red titan = really good (ask dan about Chapins bomb play), blue titan = insane, white titan = sucks.